There's a lot of emphasis today on practical preaching, helping people address their felt-needs, and giving direct application. Is that foremost in your mind when you prepare a message?

When I prepare to teach a text there are a few questions I always ask. First, "What's the thing behind the thing?" and "What's the truth behind the truth?" So if we're talking about tithing, we're really talking about generosity and participation. And if we're talking about generosity and participation, then we're really talking about whether you view the world as a scarcity or as a world governed by a Trinitarian God. Is the universe at its core a sliced-up pie where you grab your slice and then protect and defend it? Or do you believe that at the core there is an endlessly self-giving, loving community of God we are invited to step into?

So you can talk about tithing—giving your 10 percent. Or you can wrestle with a scarcity versus a Trinitarian view of the universe with tithing perhaps being an implication at the end of the message.

So you're trying to help people see a larger view of reality, through the lens of the gospel, rather than just giving them practical application.

Yes, exactly. I call it the truth behind the truth; the mystery behind the mystery; reality behind the reality. If you say we're going to do a series on marriage for the next five weeks, there's a chance that people who's aren't married, who are single, or who are divorced are going to think, Well, I guess I don't have to show up for five weeks.

Another way to approach the subject is to see marriage as one of the applications of the truth behind the truth. The truth behind the truth would lead you to preach one week on being honest, the next on apologizing, and the next on serving others. Those truths apply to everyone. And then each week you might include a point on how it applies to marriage.

Does our inability to find the truth behind the truth explain why we ignore large sections of the Bible in our preaching? We just don't see much practical how-to in Obadiah?

It's interesting you bring this up because when our church started, I spent the first year and a half preaching through Leviticus verse by verse. But now it's a part of our church's DNA to assume that every text has something for us—even ones that make no sense the first time you read them.

It may be my own warped sense of humor, but it was always the odd places in the Bible that I found most compelling. It's God's inspired Word, and it's all useful. But to really believe that—that's when things get interesting. I'd rather trust God, jump into those texts, and discover what God has for us.

I really like the idea of throwing yourself at its mercy. I'm just assuming there will be things here. Last year we did Philippians verse by verse. It took the whole year. I always begin with the assumption that there is way more going on in the text than we see on the first reading.